Chris and I are going to record the second episode of Comic Hunters this week. We might even be in the same room for the first time since the relaunch of the podcasts. We are going to the local comics superstore, That’s Entertainment, a trip that has now been a month in planning. After, we will most likely record the show.
Update: As often happens, our plans have changed. We are not going to That’s Entertainment. We are still recording. However, we won’t be in the same room.
Our topic for this show is going to be our affinity for 90s comics. We touched upon this topic in the first show. I was so excited and inspired by the unexpected revelation that we may have met before we met (listen to the show and it will make sense) that I wanted to travel back in time to revisit that era of comics that means so much to the both of us.
And we don’t even have to negotiate with Libyan terrorists to make the trip.
Marvel Comics in the 1990s and Me
It’s been a while since I’ve had to take the nerd walk of shame. I believe in being open and honest, though, so it has to be said. First, some background. Anyone who knows me knows that I am an unabashed Marvel zombie. My favorite heroes are often from Marvel, I’ve been enjoying Marvel movies since the original Spider-Man franchise (yes, even number 3), and it is most often a Marvel event that gets me back into collecting comics.
You can probably guess where I’m going. In case you don’t, let me explain. Everything I said in the previous paragraph is true. I’m not lying about being a huge fan of Marvel properties. What isn’t 100% accurate is that comics sparked my interest. In fact, the reason that I liked Spider-Man was because of the Saturday morning cartoon and my original Hulk was Lou Ferrigno. That doesn’t make me unique, but it isn’t quite the lifelong fandom that I’ve portrayed in the past.
I had no idea darkness awaited me in those funny pages once Kevin finally got me into a comic book store.
Once I got a taste of comics, I was hooked. That all happened when I was in high school and a store opened up a quick bike ride from my house. Kevin and I rode up there weekly to buy new books. In just a short period of time, I amassed quite the collection of comics. I’d be lying again if I said they were mostly Marvel books. You will see in the other two articles that I have planned for this week that I was much more into the DC and Image titles at the time. Still, there were some Marvel books that made it into my rotation.
Obscure Marvel Heroes and Me
Sure, I knew about Spider-Man and Hulk. I also quickly learned about Captain America, Iron Man and The Punisher. I collected none of those books. That’s not to say that I was a total comics hipster. After playing the X-Men arcade game, I started collecting most of the mutant books. I’m not sure how obscure it was at the time, but I was also a fan of Ghost Rider due to Mark Texeira’s art. That led to me collecting the Rise of the Midnight Sons mini series and the books that followed. I suppose that this isn’t doing much to bolster my non-hipster cred.
Especially since most people probably think of the Capcom fighter Darkstalkers when you mention Nightstalkers.
My true loyalty was to the unsung heroes of the Marvel Universe. The ones who show up every now and then to provide background color in epic two page spreads. They are the the heroes that are sometimes called the “B” or “C” or sometimes even the “Z” team. If you thought that Nightstalkers was a deep cut (and honestly, that might be the deepest cut of the ones I’m about to mention) then we aren’t going to get much shallower. Luke Cage, Black Panther, and Doctor Strange were my must collect books after the X-Men titles. Sure, those guys are all superstars now, but that’s mostly due to changing demographics and a conscious attempt by Marvel to play to those changes. Back then, they were fringe characters at best but certainly not the headliners that they are today.
Marvel 2099
Aside from that, the best part of Marvel in the 90s actually happened one hundred years in the future. Not to be outdone by the launch of Image comics, Marvel experimented with their 2099 lineup. By this time, I was very much a collector and understood the potential value of the number “1” on a cover of a comic book. Honestly, that’s the only reason that I started collecting the 2099 books.
Okay, the covers were another incentive, but that has more to do with me being easily distracted by shiny objects.
As it turned out, I really enjoyed the books. Very much. It went from getting the first issues (which you’ll learn later in the week I also did with the Image books) to buying them on a weekly basis to really enjoying the writing and the art. I’m finding that, unlike many nerds, I’m not as married to tradition as they might be. I liked that the 2099 heroes all had their own world in which to play. It was enough like our own to lend it plausibility, but different enough to give it a different feel and history.
When I got back into collecting, one of the first things I did was attempt to replace as much of my 2099 collection as possible. I thought I did a good job, which I have since filled in more. That’s it. I’m done. I’ve got all of the 2099 books. Spider-Man, Ravage, Doom, X-Men, limited Hulk series, and the 2099 Unlimited. Nope, I quickly learned. There were at least Fantastic Four and Ghost Rider books, too. When I learned about Ghost Rider, I remembered it from the original collection. Oh well, a collection is never complete.
The Verdict
For my money, if only the 2099 books came from the 1990s, I’d be a happy person. The world was so well realized and spoke directly to my teenage self. Of course, there are other stories, characters, writer, and artists that have come from the period, too. As I wasn’t as much of a fan of Marvel comic books then, I have been a little late to the party and it always surprises me how much great talent came from that time.
Chris and I will talk more about the actual artists and writers that came from this often overlooked period in the history of comics. We will touch on the issues that may lend to its status as one of the more underrated eras in comic books. People laugh and sometimes cringe when you bring up the 90s as the period that killed the industry. That might be true. But, from those ashes, we stand on the cusp of a potentially new golden age.
Hey gang! I’m back to tell you all about my latest haul from Midtown Comics. As always, the comics are rated between 1-10 and more importantly, there are spoilers below. You have been warned. Seriously, don’t whine to us if something gets spoiled. Spoilerific reviews ahead.
Still there?
Let’s do this.
Justice League #1 (Cover B? C? I dunno..it’s the Jim Lee variant)
Here we go! I’ve been eagerly awaiting this issue ever since it was announced that Scott Snyder was taking over JL. Fresh off of Dark Knights Metal and JL: No Justice, you would think that this issue would slow down just a bit so new readers would get acclimated to the characters, but no! Action right from the first page! I can’t stress how good this issue is. Scott Snyder’s script is on point as usual and the artwork is absolutely gorgeous with every panel being as detailed as possible. The Justice League faces a universe altering threat tied to the hole in the “Source Wall” from Metal as Martian Manhunter reflects on his role on the team as well as his past. There are a few funny moments in the book like when the Justice League is telepathically connected trying to figure out who does the best “Batman” voice. Really solid start to the Snyder era. (10/10)
Batman #48 (Cover A and B)
This issue fell a little flat for me. Joker takes over a church and kills everyone in it just to get Batman’s attention. Why? So he can ask Bats if he can be his best man. This is basically a Batman comic where Batman says two words and the Joker has 99% of the dialogue. I think my issue here is that in a couple of key moments, Batman acts way out of character. What are the odds that Batman is going to be caught off-guard and allow Joker to put a gun to his head, have a short monologue, and then allow him to pull the trigger? I was fairly certain that the main power that Batman possesses besides his brain, is his martial arts knowledge. And as if that’s not confusing enough, at the end of the book, Joker asks Batman to pray with him. And Batman kneels down next to him instead of knocking him out, or even restraining him, no, he kneels down to pray with the Joker. Is Joker suddenly Catholic?? He didn’t think for a second that its probably a trap?!? And lo and behold a bomb then detonates to the surprise of no one. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure that Tom King has a much better grasp of his version of Batman than I do, but all in all, it just seemed too out of character for me. The next issue is advertised as Catwoman and Joker one on one so let’s hope this story gets a little better going into #50. (5/10)
Immortal Hulk #1 (Cover A)
Admittedly, I’m not a huge Hulk fan and for the most part have fallen out of touch with the character. After brushing up on my Hulk history, I ordered the new 1st (not so much) issue of Hulk. I had been looking forward to this issue because it was announced that it would have more of a horror vibe to it. I’m a huge bronze age horror junkie so I was really hoping this would have the same feel to it. First of all, thank you Marvel, for including the legacy issue number underneath the new one. For collectors like Shawn and myself, this is really helpful for cataloging purposes since collecting an entire run can get confusing with all the reboots that tend to happen. This book definitely has a darker vibe to it, with Bruce Banner being the Hulk once again, and apparently turns into the Hulk, even if he is “dead”, when the sun goes down. The artwork is really decent, and the story in this issue was tragic but fairly simplistic. Overall an interesting take on the Hulk and I’m adding the title to my pull list. (8/10)
Amazing Spider-Man 800 (Reg. Cover and H.Ramos Connecting Variant)
Here it is, the 800th(!) issue of Spidey, and holy hell it’s a doozy! 80 pages of intense action and plot twists as the Red Goblin storyline wraps up! This issue was simply incredible. Tons of references to classic stories, several jaw-dropping moments like Venom agreeing to help Spidey, to the point of lending him the Venom symbiote to even things out with Red Goblin, even friggin’ Doc Oc lends a hand, and the death of a longtime character. This issue hit it out of the park, and is absolutely worth the price tag. I liked it so much that I bought 2 copies, the regular and the Humberto Ramos connecting variant. (11/10)
The following is a work of fan fiction. As eluded to in the title, it happens during the events of Marvel Civil War. All properties are the trademarks or copyrights of their respective companies.
Introduction: Spider-Man is Not as Cool as Batman
He loved this city. Correction: He loved this city from up here. Perched on the edge of a gargoyle hundreds of stories above the ground, eh felt almost like that man who liked to dress as a bat. What was his name? Oh well, it doesn’t matter. That guy is way cooler.
He can drive and takes advantage of that by driving the coolest vehicles ever invented. J. Jonah barely pays me enough–for pictures that he then uses to demonize me–to keep a roof over my head. Not that Bat-Guy (Bat-Dude)? He has way better PR. I always see him in the papers shaking the hands of the commissioner even after letting that clown blow up a few city blocks. Sometimes life is so unfair.
Heck, he’s even cooler up here. He stands on the edge of these things, cape blowing in the wind, his scowl somehow penetrating that mask of his to remind all the bad guys who is in charge. Maybe I need a cape. I already have the mask, but it covers my whole face. How do you show off a scowl with a full mask?
He tried a few scowls underneath the mask and just felt ridiculous. Taking off the mask, he tried a few more scowls. He felt no less ridiculous. Holding the mask in front of his face, he imagined it as Doc Ock or maybe Gobby. After one or two more practiced scowls, he felt even more ridiculous.
It’s just hard to scowl as your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man.
He looked closer at the mask. He did need it, right? Set aside the face that J. Jonah had this weird vendetta against it. He had to protect his family. From what, though?
He put the mask back on.
Act 1: Who is Spider-Man Really Protecting?
At first, I needed the mask to keep those around me safe. I might be imbued with the awesome powers of the spider, but not many others have been. If anyone found out my secret, those around me would have been put in danger and I couldn’t live with myself if any of them got hurt. Not even J. Jonah.
He thought back over the years that he had been Spider-Man. Several times over, the mask had proven to be necessary for just that purpose. He grimaced under the mask. Too many times. He hadn’t exactly been careful about protecting that trade secret. Sometimes it felt like J. Jonah was the only one in the world who didn’t know.
Maybe Tony Stark is right.
That voice that had taken up permanent residence in the back of his mind spoke up. He could always hear it muttering back there. It only became audible at times like these when everything else in his brain went completely silent. Once it took over, there was no stopping it. It picked up on his thought train from earlier.
We are super powered beings. Granted (or born with) powers that far beyond the comprehension of the average person, ee are dangerous. There is collateral damage. What happened in Connecticut must never happen again. Something had to be done.
Do I really have to be one of the faces of it, though?
Well, why not, Peter? Honestly, why not? You already had to admit that the mask doesn’t always serve the purpose of saving those around you. You bemoaned that sometimes you feel like the only one who doesn’t know that you are Spider-Man is J. Jonah. Who is the mask protecting?
Act Two: The Death of Spider-Man
He stood up–and jumped, executing a perfect swan dive. Windows flashed by and he dropped through the air. Most were dark, but a few had lights on and he saw men and women still working at their desks at this hour and one overly excited custodian waved gleefully as he passed. Tomorrow morning, he was going to have one hell of a story to tell his family. I was there when Spider-Man killed himself.
I’m only kidding, of course. Or, am I? It would be so easy to just let it happen. Make it look like my web slingers malfunctioned. Thinking about it now, it’s actually quite easy. Plus, it solves my problem of having to make the decision to reveal my identity.
His Spider-Sense tingled, interrupting his train of thought. That was strange. Granted, it often went off during times of pending harm and he was hurtling towards the ground to certain death. What he had learned during his occasional non-suicidal leaps from buildings is that it only generally worked when that pending harm wasn’t self-inflicted. Someone needed help and they were close. A faint burglar alarm confirmed this. He shot a web in the direction of the sound.
Act Three: Spider-Man Saves the Day
He quickly discovered the source of the alarm. It was one of those mom and pop deli shops that somehow survived in this city and made it unique. He smiled under the mask. He may not always love this city up close, but it had its moments. Busting petty crooks holding up a neighborhood deli was always a highlight of an evening. Landing amidst the chaos of the scene, he opened the door and entered the deli.
Compared with the street, the deli was quiet. The only sound was a burglar alarm blaring its tones, that he found that surprisingly easy to ignore. Quickly surveying the store, he saw that the register was in the back, so the crook stood with his back to the entrance. He’s a real amateur. He hadn’t even looked back to see if the police had arrived. Thank goodness for small miracles.
Grabbing a bag of Doritos and a Dr. Pepper, he stood behind the robber in an odd mockery of normalcy. The thief was so engrossed in his potential pay day that he didn’t even notice. Spider-Man tried to act as nonchalantly as possible. One wrong move and things could go very wrong very quickly. As he often did in these situations, he thought back to that first fateful encounter.
“Sir, could you please finish your business? Some of us have to get to work.” Spider-Man said.
The thug started and turned to face him, a look of pure surprise on his face. Spider-Man took advantage of the distraction, disarming the man and webbing him to the ceiling in his customary fashion. Walking to the register, he placed the items on the counter to pay. Looking no less shocked than the thief, the deli owner stammered before finally speaking.
“Please, take them. On the house. As thanks.”
Epilogue: I Am Spider-Man
Spider-Man shook his head. Grabbing a pen and a scrap of paper, he started jotting down an IOU.
“What’s your name?”
“My friends call me Bob. You can call me Bob.”
Spider-Man put his hands over his heart and tilted his head in a pantomime of the “Awwww” gesture. Expressions were tough in this mask. After he finished the note and handed it to Bob, he turned to leave the deli. Pausing briefly at the door he turned his head.
“Keep that note, Bob. I will be back to pay it. This probably isn’t your first rodeo, but make sure that gun gets to the police. By the way, there’s no camera in here, right?
Bob pointed to the corner.
“Besides that fake one?”
Bob shook his head Spider-Man removed his mask. The look of surprise on Bob’s face became exaggerated. It mirrored the one he imagined J. Jonah would have before the old goat keeled over.
“My name is Peter Parker,” Peter said, “and I am Spider-Man.”
He put the mask back on and swung off into the night.
Over the weekend, I realized that I never edited nor posted the comics themed podcast that Chris and I recorded a couple of weeks ago. The realization came as my computer was out of commission during our scheduled recording time for the main title podcast. It works out for this week. I can just release it this week and we can record for next week. The only issue is that I did both of my “state of” articles last week. I might be able to do them monthly, but it will more likely be every other month. I certainly wouldn’t do them weekly. As a result, I had to come up with two different comic themed articles for this week to stay current with the podcast.
I’m not sure, other than the articles last week, if I’ve mentioned Chris and my newly discovered love of comic books. Mine is more newly discovered than his as he generally has a smaller reading list than me and thus doesn’t have to spend as much. I did find a cheaper way to read the comics digitally, but I found myself missing the hunt, so to speak. I’m a collector at heart, so it just didn’t feel right not having those issues.
To set the scene for new readers, I have been collecting comic books since I was in high school. I’ve been collecting Magic the Gathering cards for almost as long. Sounds impressive, no? Imagine all of the profits from those books and cards that I sold. I should be retired on some tropical island surrounded by beautiful people and sipping on a never ending line of drinks with umbrellas in them, right?
Alas the closest I have come is I drank way too many free mai tais on a sunset cruise during our honeymoon in Hawai’i.
Granite State Comics Fest (April 22, 2018)
Why am I not? The short version of the story is that I haven’t been collecting comic books the whole time. I do take breaks every now and then, one time for almost a decade. Another tiny problem is that I threw away all of my comics from when I was a teenager. My wife (then my fiancee) and I moved a bunch before we found our house. During one of those moves, I decided I didn’t want to move the comics anymore. If I had anything worth anything it was either poached by a dumpster diver or recycled into printer paper.
During this most recent break, Chris has been in constant contact. He’s told me about all of the cool stuff in DC’s Metal event. He’s tried to convince me, more than once, that Midtown’s discount is worth it. As a quick aside, he finally got me on board with that one. I’m quite stubborn sometimes, but eventually make the right choice. I wasn’t ever completely out this time.
The true turning point came during our visit to the Granite State Comic Fest. Both he and I went to the larger convention several years ago. I saw that they were doing a smaller show and suggested that we go. He agreed and both Liam and Aiden expressed interest in joining us. It is one of the most fun days I’ve had in the last few months. More than that, it gave me additional reasons to want to collect comics books.
What’s Next? (Comics on my List)
Our trip to the comic fest and a costly trip to a local store inspired to update my inventory. I’m a bit jealous of the set up that Chris has for comics now and I want one, too. With renewed purpose and focus, I can do that.
My first idea was to fill out my Spawn run as much as I could. That’s not entirely true. I said to Chris, “I want a full run of Spawn. Shouldn’t be too hard.” Spawn is the first comic not named Spider-Man that made a strong connection. Unfortunately, it has been much harder than I anticipated to pick up the missing books. I guess I still have a 1990s over production mindset and one of the times that I took off collecting must have been lean for Spawn. As Chris tells me, we’ll find them eventually.
After I fill in all of my interested titles from the Rebirth relaunch, I want to start working backwards to the “Final Crisis”. I have some New 52 titles and I have most of the Countdown books. Filling in the New 52 will be an impressive accomplishment. Chris told me this one might be difficult, too. I can fill in with trades. Not as interesting, collector wise, but I’m not going to be an issue snob in the face of overwhelming prices.
I have a few ideas for my Marvel collection. I’m only a couple of issues short of completing Totally Awesome Hulk. I also have most of the (She-)Hulk series that was just cancelled. Other than that, I went crazy on eBay and bought a whole bunch of Marvel Team Up issues and am going to work on finishing that whole run as I’m less than a dozen missing.
Conclusion
I enjoy reading comics. Especially now, the stories and art are great in almost every book that you get. I should know, I had a 50 dollar a week habit for a while. Like Magic the Gathering, which I enjoy playing, I am more of a collector. I love opening packs and seeing what cards I have and need to finish a set. With comics, I enjoy the books. There’s also something to be said for scratching that itch that you get when you realize there’s a book missing from your collection. I’ve been scratching that itch quite a bit recently. Stay tuned to see if I can keep the momentum.
As mentioned in my previous article on the state of Marvel comics, Chris and I have recorded a pilot for a new podcast. I am close to finishing the edit on that, so it should be available soon. I had hoped to take the occasion of the new show and my new interest in comics to write down a few words about the state of the two larger comics publishers. If you’ve read that article already, you know the deal. If not, here’s the short, short version. This isn’t an in depth analysis of the financial and social impact of DC Comics. It is simply the thoughts of one fan and the likelihood of that fan remaining for the foreseeable future. If that sounds like something you’d like to read, let’s get started!
The State of DC Comics (as I see it)
First, a little history. This is partly inspired by comments made in my Marvel comics article. It is also a result of my attempts to organize my comics. During those efforts, I ran across my issues of the 52 and Countdown weekly series. That led to a Google search for DC “continuity” surrounding those series and, more importantly, the series following. Apparently I stopped collecting comics after Week 41 of the Countdown series. In a conversation with Chris, I think that is because the local comic book store in town closed.
I was for years under the impression that these guys were just falling. Maybe their impact is what caused the final crisis and New 52? I may never know.
Chris got back into Batman during New 52. He also enjoyed Swamp Thing. I knew nothing about the actual plots of any of the books during this time. In the Marvel article, I touched on New 52 and Rebirth because Marvel seems to be in the same rudderless ship that DC was back then. I ignorantly made the assumption that DC used New 52 as a way to clean up their timeline and further ignorantly assumed that maybe Marvel was doing the same by rebooting so soon after their Legacy announcement.
In my searches, I found that New 52 was actually, other than maybe a few issues, an absolutely disaster. I don’t know if any of this is true, but I learned that Batman was actually his dad because it was Bruce who was killed and Wonder Woman declared war on Aquaman (maybe?) that destroyed all of Western Europe. It all reached a head when (as it often does when DC wants to reset continuity), Flash royally screwed up the timeline by going back in time to save his mother.
Seriously, there are a few things we can rely on in comics. Flash will mess up the timeline and any time Marvel wants to be taken seriously, they “end” the Fantastic Four.
That has led to Rebirth, which almost everyone agrees is the most successful relaunch of a comics line, maybe ever. It has been successful in one way that is personal to me. It’s kept me collecting comics. I might have gotten back into comics because of Secret Empire, but DC is the reason I’m still here. I’m enjoying nearly every story that I read from them. They have some of my favorite writers and artist working for them. Things right now are just really good.
My Future with DC Comics
I think I’ve made the point that I think that Rebirth has be overwhelmingly successful. It’s given me reason to keep buying comics and unlike previous times that I’ve gotten back into collecting, I have reasons to stay. First, DC Comics are really good right now. Secondly, the Rebirth reboot has given me a focus to the collecting. I might never be able to collect all 1000 Action comics, but there’s nothing preventing me from collecting the ones from the start of Rebirth. Finally, my kids are showing an interest in comics. Similar to my other hobbies, they are much more enjoyable when I can share with them.
In case you haven’t read my previous article, I’m much more optimistic about the future of DC Comics than Marvel right now. Chris and I have talked and I realize that the market is cyclical. Any time you have competitors, they generally take turns at the top. Right now is DC’s turn to be at the top. Thing is, I don’t see Marvel making the moves necessary to even compete, let alone make a run for that number 1 spot.
Speaking of #1, I just realized that they’re killing the Incredible Hulk line to make room for this one. Hulk has been so mistreated recently.
The one thing that worries me is that DC has given into market pressure and they’re raising some cover prices. While that might have been inevitable and that’s just what they believe the market can bear, it’s not an encouraging sign. I know I’m an old man who refuses to come into the present when it comes to game and book prices, but this is one thing that I truly can’t understand. Maybe I’m looking at it the wrong way. In addition to just getting with the times, I need to realize that this isn’t just a “32 page” book as I’ve said in the past. This is, often, a great story with accompanying art that should be appreciated. Besides, thanks to Chris, I now realize that only chumps pay full cover price.
Chris and I recorded a pilot for a new show this weekend about comics. In the episode, we mostly talked about our history with comics. For future episodes, we hope to discuss titles, possibly eras of comics (we both stubbornly still like the 1990s in spite of all the flaws), and of course the big two, DC and Marvel. I hope to take the lead in that last topic this week by writing a couple of article about the states, as I understand them, of our favorite (or maybe just favorite to hate since this is is the age of internet trolling) comic book companies.
As a consequence of that parenthetical, I will lay some ground rules. Do arguments about politics in comic books excite you? You’ve come to the wrong place. If you want analysis of current trends and what they might mean for future decisions, look elsewhere. What about deep financial insight into the industry? I can’t provide that. What I can do is give you one fan’s opinion of Marvel Comics and how likely it is that I’ll continue to collect them beyond the ones that I consider necessary. For those keeping score, that’s Spider-Man and Hulk.
And, if Marvel ever wants to take all of my money, Spider-Hulk!
The State of Marvel Comics (as I see it)
Chris and I touched on this a bit during the podcast episode, but we didn’t dig too deeply this time. I don’t want to step too much over that conversation here. However, I know that in text conversation, we’ve both discussed our concern about Marvel Comics and that one of the episodes of the comics podcast will revolve around our thoughts concerning the company. My main problem with comics generally, and Marvel comics specifically, is cover price. As that is something that I can’t do anything about and Marvel has repeatedly said they won’t do anything about, I will leave that point for the next section.
Another topic of conversation between Chris and I has been the “reboots”. I was on board with Secret Empire story line. In fact, it was that story that got me to start collecting again. I was even with the for their “Legacy” reboot. Heck, I though, it worked for DC Comics with “Rebirth”, so why not try it. I just saw earlier this year (and it is reflected by the books being posted on my pull list) that they have another reboot planned.
Again, this is not entirely without precedent. After their Infinite Crisis event, DC launched the New 52. I have no idea if this was the plan the entire time or not, but those titles only had 52 issues and then led right into Rebirth. Also, this article isn’t about DC. That article is coming either tomorrow or Friday.
New 52 also introduced me to the dream team of Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo, so I’m willing to give it a pass.
Back to Marvel, the rebooting titles soon after a reboot has happened before. Furthermore, it has been successful. However, and this is what bothers me slightly about it, now that I think about it, the new 52 into Rebirth makes sense as a planned event. This move by Marvel feels more like the panicky decision of people who have run out of ideas.
My future with Marvel Comics
First, let’s address the topic of cover prices. I already said that nothing is most likely going to be done about it. So, why bring it up? Well, they are the main reason that I took my most recent break from comics. I was fully ready to just let them be a part of my past with maybe the occasional visit to a flea market, convention, or dollar bin. Then, Chris convinced me to try Midtown because they offer cheap cover prices. He then found out about DCBS and their prices are even lower. Cover prices shall no more be a gate beyond which I can’t pass.
Because, DC might be drawing some cool things, but this line is no longer one of them.
It’s still too early in the process for me to know if the rebooting a reboot will work out for Marvel as it seems to have for DC. I will say that I’m keeping an open mind about it. If, in fact, it is a plan to remove some of the messiness of recent story lines and streamline their line up, then I’ll happily eat my words. I did say to Chris a few weeks ago that I was combing through archives of the page and found an article bashing DC for what Marvel is doing right now, so things can definitely change. I will finish with this. For the first time ever, as one of the most unabashed Marvel zombies out there, I have more DC titles on my pull list than Marvel.
A few days ago, as we tend to do every now and then, Chris and I were talking about comics. This is only newsworthy because I haven’t been reading them for the last 6 months or so. You may remember last year that I had a 50 dollar a week habit that I had to quit because it was becoming financially untenable. I tried to go the same route as Chris and order from Midtown Comics, but I have been trained by Amazon to not pay anything for shipping and they charge. I then tried an alternate way of getting and reading them, but I didn’t have a good way to do that.
As a result, I have been out of the loop for quite a while. It’s not that I don’t like comics. In fact, I had been enjoying comics more than I had in a long time and more than many other fans seemed to have been enjoying them, Chris included. Oh, he’s solidly in DC’s corner, but has nothing but contempt for Marvel right now. I actually enjoyed most of the books from both companies when I was reading.
I was even in their corner through Secret Empire and Legacy. I may be faltering with their latest reboot of their most recent reboot of their reimagining of their lineup.
While we were talking, he mentioned that the final issue of the Dark Nights Metal series was imminent. I went into the series 100% on board, enjoyed all of the one shot tie in issues, and gave it a chance. However, as you will hear either in the “bonus” section of the podcast, we both got a bit tired of the series and the fact that it seemed to be getting a little out of hand. It isn’t explicitly why I stopped reading, but I did stop reading comics in the middle of the series. Chris assures me that it has gotten better and that I should give it another shot. As a result, in my words to Chris, “I’m acknowledging the existence of comics again.”
Marvel
Being an unabashed Marvel zombie for life (and it appears afterlife), I first checked out a couple of Marvel books. I went with two comics that I had really been enjoying in my most recent comics life, Dr. Strange and Old Man Logan. I don’t remember any of the other titles, but I think that there might have been a Spider-Man title in there and perhaps The Avengers (which Chris says is good). I looked into The Avengers, because I remember it being good before when Mark Waid was writing it and he still is, so it’s probably still a good title.
These guys. Perhaps not so much…
Dr. Strange was, as I said to Chris, Dr. Strange. It wasn’t great, but it wasn’t bad, either. It was what Dr. Strange is supposed to be, I guess, and perhaps speaks to the holding pattern that Marvel comics is, and has been, for a few years now. They have not been able to translate the success of their movies and some of their TV shows into their comics. They keep trying things, but nothing is working.
The reason for this is obvious and both Chris and I have said it several times. It’s easy to get people into the movie theater. Every geek who’s ever gotten a girlfriend and had kids is an automatic audience. I speak from experience. I have taken my girlfriend, now my wife, to many Marvel movies. Now that my kids are getting older, I generally spare her and take them. She wants nothing to do with comic books other than for a while, she was reading Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel. Now, she just rewatches the shows with the kids.
All three kids did show an interest in the comics and they would read them after I was finished with them. Though, to be honest, Liam was only reading Secret Empire because he overheard me flippantly saying that Captain America is a Nazi and he’s at the age when he starts to learn about that part of history and was intrigued. Aiden only read Flash comics and much of what I got was too far above Quinn with the violence. But, and this is important, I only ever bought one copy of the books and rarely went out of my way to buy other books that I didn’t want to read.
Are we really going to discuss cover price again? You betcha!
Because, the fact of the matter is that the rate at which I was spending money on comics was absurd. I could not continue to drop that much money every week and I was at a minimum of books that I actually wanted to read. Truth of the matter is that I could have spent twice as much with all of the good content out there. Again, Chris had the idea of Midtown, which I probably should, but I haven’t taken the plunge yet. So, I just stopped buying.
I’m not completely back into comics, but I have taken that first step, so to speak. I think that’s usually in the context of quitting an addiction, but this is one from which I won’t ever be completely free. The other book that I read was Old Man Logan. Chris recommended it through his friend’s words, so I checked it out. This one was better than Dr. Strange and more in line with what I remember from last year when I was reading it. I’m not sure where the story is going, but it has an interesting take on the nature of reality and if it is just planned with no true free will. It’s always a question that has interested me, so I’m willing to keep giving it a read.
DC/Independent
After talking to Chris, I found the archives of one of my now defunct web pages. One of the articles was an article that I could have copied, done a fine and replace of “DC” with “Marvel” and released it as new content. It was during the time of the New 52 content and DC seemed just as rudderless and without direction as Marvel does now. I made the joke that in 3 years, if comics are still around, maybe Marvel will be good again.
Chris contends, and sales figures back him up, that DC is far superior to Marvel right now. I won’t argue that point. I will simply state that as I ease back into comics, I have not read a single DC title over the past two weeks. That is neither an endorsement nor a indictment. It simply is and I want to be intellectually honest about that. I haven’t read any independent books, either, but I hadn’t read nearly as many of them as DC and Marvel before the break.
What Does it all Mean?
Who knows? I should, but I don’t. I don’t have the money for comics. I don’t have the time for comics. I really enjoy comics and want to read them, but when? And, who is paying? I thought I found a way to solve both of those problems, but so far, it hasn’t worked as planned. I guess stay tuned to see if more review are forthcoming.
When discussing this article with Chris, I initially told him that I was going to write a defense of Cloverfield Paradox. After thinking about it for a minute, I amended that to support. First, I’m sick of defending things that I like from people who don’t like them. You don’t like something? Fine, but at least come up with a reasonable defense of why you don’t like it. We live in a culture that has glorified hate simply for the sport of it.
It has most recently coalesced around the release of Black Panther. I knew from the beginning that the release of the movie was going to be an epic crap storm of racists posting, tweeting, and outright lying about both the movie and the events surrounding the movie. True to form and the human condition (of which I am both amazingly inspired and terrifyingly suspect), things were much worse that I could ever have expected.
The fact that these idiots had to go to Twitter and YouTube to backlash with their “Wakanda isn’t real” nonsense proves just how running scared they really are.
But, this article isn’t about Black Panther. There will be an article about Black Panther once I get around to seeing it. I’ve been so busy with my 3 jobs that I haven’t had a chance. This article is about Cloverfield Paradox specifically and the Cloverfield “franchise” in general. I put franchise in quotes because nobody is entirely sure if these movies actually share anything in common other than the fact that JJ Abrams has chosen to take movies, insert out of context plot elements into them, and let people argue over what those out of context elements might mean.
“Okay,” some of you are saying, “you are making our argument for us. I thought you said this was going to be an article supporting the movie.” Well, you can interpret that last statement as a negative if you want. I think that says more about you than I ever could. I was simply stating a fact. As of right now, there is no judgement in that statement. The judgement comes next.
The Good
Marketing: If there’s been one consistent in the three movies that can loosely be called a franchise, it is that they have mastered marketing. The first one was involved in a ridiculously intricate viral web campaign back when that was a thing that led people chasing wild goose after wild goose. Not being one to be in the loop on these things, I had no idea about any of it until after I saw the movie and went searching for some background information. For some reason, I don’t care all that much about the origins of Godzilla or King Kong. But, this movie left just enough unsaid that I wanted to know more.
Plus, they technically didn’t lie and they showed the monster, but just enough to leave you wanting more. Such teases.
The second movie was so under the radar that I only peripherally knew about it because it used the word Cloverfield in the title. Huh, I thought,that’s weird that it is called 10 Cloverfield Lane. For some reason, though, this curiosity didn’t lead me to explore further. Probably because they marketed it as a completely different movie. It was a closed house thriller along the lines of Panic Room. Or, so I thought.
It wasn’t until the third movie that I realized that there were three. Netflix released this movie after the Super Bowl ended, showing that they can basically just beam stuff into your brain, or they will be able to once they figure out the technology, truly on demand. Well, at least on me (someone who isn’t often affected by ridiculous gimmicks), it worked and I stayed up until almost 2 o’clock in the morning watching the movie even though I had to be up at 7 for work. Furthermore, I wasn’t upset that I had given up sleep.
Science?: For a science fiction movie, the science of the movie wasn’t the focus. While that isn’t unusual, this seemed like the type of science fiction movie that wanted to focus on the science and have the option for fiction due to the science. Does that make sense? Probably not, so I’ll try to explain.
Sure, but what does the purple button have to say?
I don’t go into Star Wars expecting exact, or even accurate, science. Nerds are constantly trying to point to the fact that hyperspace can’t possibly be real and that lightsabers are physically impossible, but I simply don’t care. The latest nerd rage came when (spoiler alert), the ship jumped to lightspeed and blew up the other ship. That’s not why I’m at Star Wars. I’m there for the pew, pew, the vwoom, vwoom, and the music mostly. The plot is basic and some of the characters are cool, but for me Star Wars is just the comfy blankie from when I was younger.
Other science fiction stories try to get it right. They mostly fail, but at least they put some science stuff in there to make it seem like they know what the hell they’re talking about. I’m referring to the disaster movies like Twister or Armageddon. They throw all kinds of smart stuff out there for what they believe is the benefit of the audience to keep them in the fiction. Ultimately, though, they just end up sounding foolish and like theater people that failed science in high school.
At the beginning of the movie, I thought that the Cloverfield Paradox was going to be like the second type of movie. Because JJ Abrams made Star Trek more like that type of movie with the dark matter explanation. I should have known better. JJ Abrams likes to think that he’s one step ahead of people and zig when they expect him to zag. I wasn’t exactly zigged or zagged. Just a bit surprised.
Mostly, I just Zug.
The movie starts with some discussion of physics and the physics of alternate realities. Past, present, future, distorted time and space, that sort of thing. Then, it gets real quiet about it and just lets the science sort of tell the story. There is some mention later in the movie, but they don’t keep hitting you over the head with what is happening. Really, in my opinion, this is the best way to do things. Give the science and then just get the hell out of the way.
Weird: As a result of the introduction of quantum physics into the movie, they can make it weird and have a reason for it being weird. Because people, including those like me who only study it as a hobby, don’t completely understand the science behind it, you can do almost anything and it becomes plausible in the fiction.
While this kind of story can make some people uncomfortable, I absolutely love it. It gets my brain moving and causes me to think. Since most entertainment is just about turning off our brains and marveling (pun fully intended) at the two freaks of nature punching each other, I find it refreshing when something comes along and challenges me to be a little more active in the process.
This movie kept me up until 1:40 am watching and then another 20 minutes to a half an hour falling into a Google trap. Well played.
Just Dumb Fun: I had a conversation with a friend on Facebook about the movie. See, I posted there that I had watched it the night of the Super Bowl and then suddenly, I started seeing posts about it in my feed. It’s built into Facebook’s mind reading…er, algorithms. You get stuff that they think you want to see. It’s not that I didn’t want to see other opinions. It’s just a little unsettling anytime that Facebook gets that far into your brain.
He was one of the people who didn’t particularly care for the movie. I had no idea that there was such a backlash to it until I noticed that he didn’t like the movie, so I went in search of other opinions counter to my own. I saw that there were, in fact, people who didn’t like the movie. And, it wasn’t just that they didn’t like the movie. They really didn’t like the movie. That was how his post came across. He really didn’t like this movie.
Well, armed with this new information, I decided to show my support. I responded, “I liked it. It was just dumb fun.” He replied, “Is that what we’ve come to expect from this franchise?” I was dumbfounded. Suddenly Cloverfield is a venerated franchise that we’ve come to expect things from? I mean, it was ultimately revealed that the first one was about a giant baby monster destroying Manhattan in a temper tantrum because he missed his mommy. That’s a fairly ridiculous premise. I know what you’re probably thinking right now. This movie both made you think and was just dumb fun? What the hell?
Well, they did say the movie was a paradox. Perhaps that’s what they meant. I’m also starting to understand why my students hate me so much.
The Bad
Note: I’m going to change the format a bit for this article. I couldn’t argue anything negative about the movie. That’s not to say that it is a perfect movie. I wouldn’t even argue that it’s a great movie. But, it was a good movie and that’s how I want to remember it. Since I am mostly a positive person, instead of arguing my own bad, I will argue against the negatives that I’ve seen online and elsewhere. Besides, the article is supposed to be in support of the movie.
Not related to the other movies: I have seen and heard this argument made more and more in the weeks since the movie was released. Most recently, I’ve heard it argued as being a movie that was another movie that got bought out by JJ Abrams production company, slapped some Cloverfield paint on it, and released it straight to Netflix. This argument goes on to say that the “Netflix Exclusive” label is starting to lose some of its shine and starting to become this generation’s “Straight to cable/DVD”. I won’t argue with that. Netflix has had some strong original programming, but they are starting to get a little lazy with their originals lately.
This movie might be an extension of that and the fact that JJ Abrams seems to have created this “world” in which he can just drop some monsters or aliens, put the “Cloverfield” label on the movie, market it with some intrigue, and people will watch. I certainly did. But, I will argue that isn’t necessarily a bad thing. I’ve had a discussion with a few people, including those who are involved in creative careers and they all agree that every now and then you just have to shut off your brain and have fun. Not everything needs to be a life changing experience. So what if Abrams has demystified the Cloverfield mystique? Honestly, if it could be taken away that quickly, was it really even there to begin with?
The Blair Witch made 3 (?) movies from something that they never even showed on screen. Surely, ol’ Clovie has a few more in him.
Confusing: The other argument that I’ve heard against the movie is that it is confusing. Honestly, if this is a complaint that you have about the movie, I can’t really help you. As I mentioned earlier, it is weird (even campy), but that weirdness gets an explanation almost as soon as the movie starts. Again, some have pointed to this explanation as evidence of the previous point. Again, I won’t argue against that. Clearly, Cloverfield isn’t a franchise in the traditional sense of the word. Instead, every few years, we will get another “Cloverfield” movie.
Back to the explanation. Donal Logue, who I know as the stoner guy from VH1’s “I Love the….” series, is a paranoid YouTube personality (Maybe? It was very late/early in the morning when I watched it) that explains that by doing what they are about to do, they can affect multiple dimension, past, present, future. Call it lazy. Call it irresponsible. Call it whatever else you want to call it. I call it genius. In one reshoot, they explained the whole damn thing and set it up for whatever the hell they want to do going forward.
Jolly good show, old chaps. Here, here!
The Ugly
I’ve written several times of the toxic influence of the internet and how quickly things can spread. I had always hoped, perhaps naively, that would mean that information could become so ubiquitous as to make it irrelevant in the constant power struggle that we seem to have set up for ourselves and our species. I never considered that it is just as easy to spread misinformation and disinformation and lead to an increase in that struggle. I suppose I should have. I also suppose that I should be grateful. As an educator, I am a professional mythbusters, so the more myths, the more busting I have to do.
As a result of the ease with which information travels over this superhighway, fringe elements have become just as “reliable” as the general consensus for a lot of things. People who shout that they are mad about a black stormtrooper in Star Wars might only be a couple of dudes in their mom’s basement posting the same message over and over on message boards and social media. Due to the overly reactionary news cycle, someone picks it up, and then it becomes a platform upon which people are willing to fight and die.
I don’t know if this Cloverfield Paradox reaction is indicative of the majority or simply a fringe element. I do know that it hasn’t been met with the same vitriol as some of the other movies that have become a target recently. People are mostly just disappointed, which makes me think that it is a genuine reaction. However, the fact that there were such high expectations going into the movie that those expectations would not be met is puzzling to me.
Note: A visit to Rotten Tomatoes shows that it has a 17% with critics and a 48% (with a 3.1 out of 5 star average, so not sure how that works) score with fans, so it appears to be more or less not great by most standards.
I find it interesting that a Feminazi and racist against whites George Soros funded project would give such a diverse cast a bad rating like that.
The Verdict
Is Cloverfield Paradox a great movie? Not by any stretch of the imagination. Is Cloverfield Paradox a good movie? Not by many traditional measures, no. Is Cloverfield Paradox an entertaining movie? Yes, I can confirm that my sleep deprived brain got full entertainment from the movie.
And, honestly, that’s all I’ve come to expect from the movies. The first one was silly, dumb fun. I never saw the second one, but it sounds like it might have been the one to set expectations so high for this one. Although, from the sounds of it, the ending should have drawn the battle lines pretty clear for people. There are no rules in these universes. Anything goes. Be prepared for good, bad, ugly, and the just plain silly. Have some fun with it. Or don’t. We’ll keep on doing our thing.
For the last few months, I’ve been in denial. In denial of the slow decline of comics. There, I said it: Comics are declining. Shawn had texted me a couple of times in the past saying as much once he left the hobby behind. I didn’t want to believe it, and in those cases agreed with his observations but not necessarily that the entire industry was in trouble. After all, DC Comics was still putting out quality books. Well folks, the industry is in trouble. DC Comics is still chugging along producing really great stuff (Batman, Batman: White Knight, Wonder Woman, Justice League, Dark Nights Metal), but Marvel Comics has stopped pulling its weight.
If you remember it was only last August that Marvel announced their “Legacy” initiative after Secret Empire concluded, which was essentially just a fancy term for going back to original numbering on their line of books and “bringing the fun back to comics”.
I gritted my teeth and said, “Ok, it feels like a reboot-ish thing but I’ll try a few titles out.”
I fell under the spell of the Lenticular covers, fully aware that it felt all too familiar. It felt like the same mistakes that were made back in ’96, when the industry essentially collapsed and Marvel declared bankruptcy. Gimmick covers, reboots, character deaths,..etc, it turned off both the casual reader and the collector. Cripes, I still remember standing in line just to pick up Superman #75 because it was the end of Superman. At that point we were not yet conditioned to the fact that a death isn’t a death in comics. A little while later after enduring the painfully crappy “Funeral for a Friend” crossover and the god-awful Four Supermen crossover, Superman was alive and well and the industry was, well, not.
So what happened this fall? Marvel puts out their fancy little covers and we all flock to buy them. Wrong. We actually didn’t all run out and buy them. I mean, I did because I’m an idiot but a majority of people realized that a cover doesn’t matter. It’s what’s between the covers that matters. And what was between those covers was of the same quality that existed before Legacy, and that quality wasn’t great in comparison to what DC was putting out. Sure, there were a few good storylines, but as a whole Marvel was in trouble.
One of their most talented writers, Brian Michael Bendis, decided to jump ship and joined the competition. He later revealed that Marvel tried to convince him to stay by offering him a Deadpool or Wolverine book. Typical Marvel. This brings me to my next point: riding the hype wave of a popular character until people stop caring. How many Deadpool books can they pump out? Again, sins of the past..Do you remember how many Wolverine books were around in the 90’s? How many cameos he had in other books? It was mind-boggling. Deadpool is being treated the same way. You can’t base an entire company off of one frickin’ character. I’ll be honest with you, DC is starting to fall into the same trap with Batman. Since Scott Snyder wrote the hell out of the “New 52” series and sold a ton of books, there has been a real focus on Bats in the DC Universe. Are the books good? Absolutely. Just yesterday, I told Shawn to give White Knight a try. However this doesn’t mean that every month there should be a new Bats series, and its starting to be that way. DC just released Brave and Bold: Batman & The Wonder Woman #1 as well as Batman: Sins of the Father #1. That’s two new titles in the same month. So while DC is putting out better quality, I do get worried that they will fall into the same traps that Marvel has.
One thing they haven’t done is raise their cover prices, which in the end is what most people care about. They even lowered the price on their Dark Nights Metal books once they saw that the sales were so great for the first two one-shots a dollar. Maybe it’s just me but that shows that they listen to and appreciate their audience. I read an interview with Marvel chief Joe Quesada where he takes the exact opposite approach and defends the $4-$5 cover prices essentially saying that the fans have enjoyed underpriced books for too long and Marvel charges what they think the creativity in their books is really worth. My guess is that he feels untouchable because Marvel Studios is an absolute juggernaut in the box office, and soundly kicks the bajeezus out of DC. Fun fact: Did you know that Black Panther has already surpassed Justice League in total domestic sales in its first week?! So while, Quesada might feel untouchable in that aspect of the business, he, unfortunately for him, only runs the comic side. The lesson that is being learned as we speak is that movie viewers do not turn into comic readers.
So how does Marvel try to remedy this problem? By rebooting. Over and over again. Y’know to give any new readers a “jumping on point”. So in May, coincidentally when Avengers: Infinity War is due to release, Marvel is going to, yup, reboot again! All that Legacy “bringing the fun back to comics” stuff? Gone! Long-term readers? Eh, go screw! I don’t understand the mentality of this decision. Do they really think that because a gazillion Avengers tickets will be sold that it will translate into a gazillion issues of Avengers #1 being sold? What happens when the second Avengers: Infinity War flick is released? Another reboot? This logic alienates current readers in order to possibly attract new ones, which obviously hasn’t worked.
They are calling this upcoming reboot their “Fresh Start” initiative. (Shakes head)
After many conversations with Shawn combined with the points I’ve made above, I believe that your buddies at 2 Guys has a solution to save the industry, or at the very least, save Marvel Comics.
-Drop cover prices to $2.99 to be even with DC. Your books currently suffer from low quality writing and art, so the excuse of us having to pay for their creative value holds no water.
-For the love of ****ing God stop rebooting.
-Hire some new talent, get some unknown pencillers, some unknown writers, colorists,..etc, who knows? You might discover the next Scott Snyder or David Finch.
-No more Lenticular covers, no more shiny covers, hell, I wouldn’t be sad to see variants go away in general.
-No more cheap gimmicks like mish-mashing ****ing characters like “Weapon H” or “Red Goblin”. Do we really need another Wolverine-like character? No. No, we don’t.
Well, that’s my two cents as far as the comic industry goes, agree? Disagree? Let me know. I think that one thing we can all agree on as comic fans is that our hobby needs to be protected from cash grabby schemes and we deserve better than what Marvel is selling us. DC? Well you’re doing fine, but watch those Bat books and the foil covers, we’ve got our eyes on you….
-To buy a box of M25 or not? I wish the spoilers were flowing a little more freely since the boxes are below $200 at the moment and while the thought of possibly pulling a Jace, the Mind Sculptor out of a pack is dancing in my head, it”s not quite enough to make me jump and preorder. My prediction for the big ticket cards in the set: Enemy fetches, Tarmogoyf, Aether Vial, Liliana of the Veil, Wurmcoil Engine, Force of Will, Mana Drain and Crucible of the Worlds.
-The first DLC characters for Dragonball FighterZ have been announced; Borly and Bardoc. Bardoc is Goku”s pops so it”s essentially another Saiyan which is a little disappointing. While I have gushed uncontrollably about the game, I do wish they would bring in some more non-Saiyan characters. On the other hand Borly should be the largest character in the game so it”ll be interesting to see how powerful the character actually is.
-A Japanese bike company (Khodaa-Bloom) designed a really cool Megaman themed bike. It can be yours for the low, low price of $2700 USD. For that price, it better come with a friggin” Buster Shot on the front.
-Not sure where I”ve been, but somehow I missed the fact that Gamestop managed to swing a deal to have a Secret of Mana remake for the PS4 be a Gamestop exclusive. Interesting to see if this becomes a thing, (i.e. Target gets exclusive games, Walmart gets exclusive games,..).
-Only 59 more days until God of War 4 is released. But who”s counting?
-For all of my Star Wars fans out there, you can preorder the largest Star Wars toy that Hasbro has ever made, Jabba”s Sail Barge, for a mere $499.99! This monstrosity is 4 feet long, a little over a foot wide, and a 1 A? feet tall, and comes with either divorce papers or a letter from your child expressing their undying love and gratitude. There is a catch, Hasbro will only start production if they get 5,000 preorders by 4/3 (currently, as of this post, they have 1,259 orders). You can place your preorder at www.hasbrolab.com.
-Finally, I want to thank everyone who follows us on Twitter and/or Instagram!
